Need your input

[Nevervana]

Two things in life I could not be worse at: Math, and Negotiating.

So I need your help, thoughts, and input. Consider yourselves sitting with me at the desk with the dealer, and lead me through this process. Please.

Your biggest help to me is to tell me if it all sounds straight forward, or if something shady is going on. Im simply unable to figure out if im being taken for a ride...

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1) According to my sales person, the 6er I want will cost $97,000.

(Packages: Sport, Individual, Premium Sound)
(Options: Head-Up Display, Satellite Radio)

2) Two year lease with 15,000 miles per year.

3) No Money Down.

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My current lease is up on January 15th. Sales person is offering to pay my last two payments (Dec and Jan). At first he claimd that BMW "swallows" that cost, but today slipped, and told me that the prices he was giving me were "if they pay my last two payments". I said "So my payments are lower if you don't?" and he said "Yes". Shady.

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I requested numbers WITH the individual package and WITHOUT the individual package. Here is what he came back to me with:

1) WITH individual AND they pay my last two payments: $2278 per month.

2) WITHOUT individual AND they pay my last two payments: $2034 per month.

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After choking and coughing, I commented: "My current payment is $1450 a month. Even without the $11k individual, its $2034, and I have fewer options chosen, how can that be?"

Him: "The individual is only upping your payment by a couple hundred dollars. But you're also switching from a 3yr lease to a 2yr lease. I am also basing this on current residual values, and those could change by the time you get your car in November."

Me: "What percent are you using for residual?"

Him: "61%"

Me: "What do you think it might change to by November?"

Him: "It could very well go up another 5%. Let me run the numbers based on a 66% residual value"

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1) WITH individual AND they pay my last two payments at a residual of 66%: $2278 per month changes to $2072 per month.

2) WITHOUT individual AND they pay my last two payments at a residual of 66%: $2034 per month changes to $1852 per month.

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MY QUESTIONS:

1) Do you feel his numbers look right / sound fair?
2) What are your thoughts on his 61% current 66% *potential future* residual percents? Do you think it will be 66% by November? Should I bank on that at all?
3) Do you believe my payment should be going up nearly $700 since its a 2yr lease versus 3yr?
4) What amount would you put down, if any?
5) How would you reply to this situation?

Thanks!

-N-

[NoM6D]

MY QUESTIONS:

1) Do you feel his numbers look right / sound fair?
2) What are your thoughts on his 61% current 66% *potential future* residual percents? Do you think it will be 66% by November? Should I bank on that at all?
3) Do you believe my payment should be going up nearly $700 since its a 2yr lease versus 3yr?
4) What amount would you put down, if any?
5) How would you reply to this situation?

Thanks!

-N-

My thoughts - I've run no numbers and have no idea what current prices or leases are going for.

1. Nope. I think they see a whale and are taking you for what they can.
2. No comment. No relevant experience.
3. Nope, which begs the question, what's so important about a 2yr lease now?
4. I would check out the other threads that have discussed financing options ad nauseum.
5. I wouldn't call them back. I'd take the exact list of options you want and call three other dealers. Tell them you're going for the best lease payment you can get and see what each of them come up with. Make sure they understand you want them to cover the last two lease payments (or however many would remain when they get the car). The hungriest sales guy will win, and so will you. First dealer may realize they've priced you too high and try to make it more attractive.
6*. Leave ALL emotion at home. Treat this as if you were buying/leasing a refrigerator or some other appliance.

*I'm not saying 6ers are refrigerators. :mrgreen:

[bdaw]

My thoughts - I've run no numbers and have no idea what current prices or leases are going for.

1. Nope. I think they see a whale and are taking you for what they can.
2. No comment. No relevant experience.
3. Nope, which begs the question, what's so important about a 2yr lease now?
4. I would check out the other threads that have discussed financing options ad nauseum.
5. I wouldn't call them back. I'd take the exact list of options you want and call three other dealers. Tell them you're going for the best lease payment you can get and see what each of them come up with. Make sure they understand you want them to cover the last two lease payments (or however many would remain when they get the car). The hungriest sales guy will win, and so will you. First dealer may realize they've priced you too high and try to make it more attractive.
6*. Leave ALL emotion at home. Treat this as if you were buying/leasing a refrigerator or some other appliance.

*I'm not saying 6ers are refrigerators. :mrgreen:

I like my refrigerator, it's right next to my desk.

[Nevervana]

Hmmmm.... okay.

[boxboss]

First, your MSRP of $97k sounds signficantly high to me.

Second, given the $97k MSRP and a 66% residual over 24 months, your monthly payments should be in the $1400 range excluding the money factor. Money is almost free these days...so I'd say you are getting screwed.

Considering your SR knows little about BMW's (based on your previous posts) and the prices you are being quoted are, IMO, stupid, you need to walk.

I need more time to analyse the numbers, but do not sign on the dotted line.

His estimation that residuals will go up 5% by November is pure :bs:. Can he give you a valid reason why that is the case? If he has that kind of insight into the market, why is he selling cars instead of stocks? He's throwing that in to make you think he's giving you a better deal...you'll feel better if they give you 5% off a 50% shafting.

[NoM6D]

One more thought - look at residuals for yourself in Autotrader... I saw a 6er in the 20s for the first time last weekend.

I agree with Boxy that 97 for a non-M6 is too high. I wouldn't pay more than 75-80 for a new 6, but maybe that's why I don't have a new 6.

[boxboss]

One more thought - look at residuals for yourself in Autotrader... I saw a 6er in the 20s for the first time last weekend.

I agree with Boxy that 97 for a non-M6 is too high. I wouldn't pay more than 75-80 for a new 6, but maybe that's why I don't have a new 6.
6d, you can't get a new 6er for $75 - not with the HUD and the other options ~N~ lists, but you damn sure can get it for less than $97k. Never, for Christ's sake, an e63 M6 is in the $107k range and BMW is offer 0.9% financing (and they'll throw in HUD and Premium Sound for free), which is, like I said, almost free money. I agree with 6dinan...they saw you coming and are trying to take you to the cleaners. They think you are a fool - please don't prove them right.

Give me a day or so to look at the numbers.

[Nevervana]

Thank you for this valuable input. I wish I could pay you $500 just to negotiate the deal for me (cough - mal are you out there?) and get me $1400.

BOX ---------- is there a printout I can get from the guy with the numbers? I can have him fax it to me and put it on here. Is that standard protocol or will he likely refuse?

-N-

[boxboss]

Thank you for this valuable input. I wish I could pay you $500.
Oh, but you can...PM me for details.

BOX ---------- is there a printout I can get from the guy with the numbers? I can have him fax it to me and put it on here. Is that standard protocol or will he likely refuse?

-N-
No specific "printout" that I know of, but ask him to put his offer in writing and fax it to you. Tell him you are considering offers from other dealers and you want to make sure you don't make any mistakes with his proposal working from memory. See how he reacts to that!

[Nevervana]

Box -

I had an idea. Carsdirect.com has all the data in their database for option pricing, and gives you a solid dollar amount after you configure your car. I'd forgotten about this. So I went on there. They only have 2008's, but this is how it breaks down.

MSRP: $78,020

+ Premium Sound Package: $1820
+ BMW Individual: $9300 (t says its 9300 but when i add it on the site, the dollar amount goes up $11,000 like the dealer said)
+ Head Up Display: $1010
+ Dealer destination charge: $825
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Total $92,220

So is that higher than you guys thought?

What if you add into it a 2 year lease (very short), highest possible miles (15,000), no money down, and make it a 2009 instead of a 2008?

Is $97,000 really that far off?

-N-

[NoM6D]

There are some people that would pay 97k, I'm sure, but I don't think you'll need to. Let Boxy run his numbers. Also, I've used Carsdirect to help with negotiations before - but for our last purchase, I was able to get Mrs. 6Ds car for 5k less than carsdirect... Of course, it was an SUV and they're harder to sell now... for some reason.

What you ought to do is have a contest to see which of your fellow members can negotiate the best deal and pay the winner something after you take delivery. Boxy would probably win, but a few of us could give him a run for his money.

[Nevervana]

I was joking when I said $500.

Would any of you do it for $50 :)

-N-

[bdaw]

I was joking when I said $500.

Would any of you do it for $50 :)

-N-

I'm sure someone here will arm you with all the information you need. I personally can dig around for some resources that I had in the past when I was brokering exotics out of Scottsdale a few years ago (pre-LA days for me).

I have LA connections now but seriously I'll see what I can dig up so you can just go in and just go in and sign and not have to worry about the negotiations.

Of course I would want to arm myself with the details. I'll read your post more carefully.

[Nevervana]

Wow. Thank you everyone. Its situations like these where the internet proves itself to be the amazing medium that it is. I really appreciate all of this.

I have asked the sales guy to fax me a copy of the offer. Because his price was so high, I opted out of all the fun add-ons that I might have gotten (cruise control, lane change, etc), so his offer will be bare bones HUD and individual....

I will go to the other dealer Friday and ask them to write up an offer for me. Ill also hit up San Diego and see what I can get.

[chuck92103]

With the economy the way it is I expect a few things.

1. You should be able to get the same or close to te lease payment achieved 2-3 years ago with the same down/term.

2. $97k sounds high for a non-M.

3. Coupes are going for around $75k-$83k, and verts about $88k with $5-$7k off MSRP.

4. $2200 per month for 24 months is almost $53k making the residual somewhere around 40-45% which is rediculous.

Which dealer are you working with?