M6 vs the Alpina

[BHR4CE1]

I sure wish I could understand German...but oh well...still an entertaining video. See below:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=TQrI7y63Gpo

Where is our Lord High Translator? I think he might still be on vacation. :palm:

[XMN]

I don't know sometimes those comparisons seem like BS. I ran my M5 against a B5 maybe the guy could not drive it though pushing the gas pedal is difficult to some. Maybe it was new and not broke in yet.

[BHR4CE1]

I don't know sometimes those comparisons seem like BS. I ran my M5 against a B5 maybe the guy could not drive it though pushing the gas pedal is difficult to some. Maybe it was new and not broke in yet.


Maybe he didn't have the "squeeze me" seats!

[boxboss]

Does anyone know what the hp/torque specs are for the B6?

[XMN]

B6 Specs, Alpina made a coupe and a vert.

Engine 4.4 liter V8
Weight 4255 lbs
Aspiration supercharger
Torque 516 lb-ft @ 4250 - 5250 rpm
HP 500 hp @ 5500 rpm
HP/Weight 8.5 lbs per hp
HP/Liter 113.6 hp per liter
0-62 mph 4.9 seconds
Top Speed 193 mph

[BHR4CE1]

WOW!

500 BHP AND fog lamps?

What was I THINKING!!!!!???????

Except for the nasty color and awful rims...I LIKE it!

[Kev946]

Nice Wing Mirrors... :shock: :tongue:

Assuming those are the rattlebox stats, with less weight, more HP and 35% more torque, I don't believe the 0-62 times. They have to be in the low 4s.

[BHR4CE1]

Assuming those are the rattlebox stats, with less weight, more HP and 35% more torque, I don't believe the 0-62 times. They have to be in the low 4s.


I thought that the vert weight MORE???

[XMN]

Those are the Coupe stats.
I think the difference in 0-62 times is that the redline is higher in the M6 shortening the time a little.

[Richard in NC]

If the coupe weighs 4200 lbs, where did the 300lbs come from? Thats part of the problem. Also we need to know the diff. ratio and whether it has a limited slip. Traction could be the other big issue. You just won't be able to launch the B6 any harder than a 650i unless they've done things to help.

4.8 secs could also be a conservative number to ensure even an old granny could do it and to not upset the ///M folks. Plus if thats 0-62, subtract .2 for 0-60.

[Richard in NC]

Those are the Coupe stats.
I think the difference in 0-62 times is that the redline is higher in the M6 shortening the time a little.

Redline doesn't really have anything to do with acceleration. However proper gearing to make use of a given redline does. Horsepower is the key when discussing acceleration. Not just the peak figure but the whole power curve and having the proper gearing to use it. For good 0-60 times you also need to be able to launch the car. Quickly getting into the power and the traction to use it are keys here.

FYI, it sounds like the SMGIII in the M6 is great for the 7 speeds to stay in the peak power but it doesn't allow traditional launch techniques and compromises off-the-line accel unless you know what you're doing. I have seen how to do it from the BMW Perf Center guys. They can snap your neck off the line in the M5 or M6 and leave lengthy black streaks as the car rockets forward on the edge of traction.

PS: XMN, I'm not being crtical of your post, just wanting to 'splain it further.

[XMN]

Those are the Coupe stats.
I think the difference in 0-62 times is that the redline is higher in the M6 shortening the time a little.

Redline doesn't really have anything to do with acceleration. However proper gearing to make use of a given redline does. Horsepower is the key when discussing acceleration. Not just the peak figure but the whole power curve and having the proper gearing to use it. For good 0-60 times you also need to be able to launch the car. Quickly getting into the power and the traction to use it are keys here.

FYI, it sounds like the SMGIII in the M6 is great for the 7 speeds to stay in the peak power but it doesn't allow traditional launch techniques and compromises off-the-line accel unless you know what you're doing. I have seen how to do it from the BMW Perf Center guys. They can snap your neck off the line in the M5 or M6 and leave lengthy black streaks as the car rockets forward on the edge of traction.

PS: XMN, I'm not being crtical of your post, just wanting to 'splain it further.

No worries I have thick skin and enjoy relying info back and forth. I love to learn more about these cars we all have.

This is how the whole hp/torque/rpm issue was broken down to me; relative to the rpm's, if car A has an rpm redline of 6k and car B has a rpm of 8k but both have the same or approximate Hp car B will be faster in the 0-60/62 short distance mode because it can maintain a longer rpm pull with a redline of 8k. So the M6 Rpm redline is 8250 and the B6 is 6500 or 7000 the M6 can "pull" longer with the broader torque and Hp band giving it the edge in the short 0-60/62 range. BMW chose high revving engines and gave up displacement and torque for this reason. Look at Benz numbers, they have high displacement and high torque but low rpm's that is why most M's much or beat them with lower numbers in HP and Torque. A BMW's high strung engines will be still pulling when a Benz will be switching gears and losing some time and that split second make the difference in 0-60/62 times. Benz does not like to show there redlines for this reason also people don't see it because all they see is the 500 plus Hp/Tq numbers. Diesels have high torque also but that does not make them fast. Of course weight/gearing has a play and the other issues you mentioned.

As far as Launch Control features, yeah it is a great feature and I can do some crazy things with it in my M3 and M5 but you are right a lot of people don't have an interest in it and don't use it in the SMG M's

I am no expert though, I really don't get into the technical aspect.

I just drive them.

[Richard in NC]

Per my understanding, your explaination is not necessarily correct. The merits of the high revving V10 versus the E39 V8 with its broad flat torque curve were/are discussed ad-nauseum on m5board.com. Based on dyno charts, the M5/M6 V10s have a relatively peaky torque curve compared to the E39 V8. It doesn't "come on" until 5k+ RPM. The close ratios in the SMG allow the engine to stay in this power/torque peak. It also seems the M5/M6 are geared such that you may actually shift sooner and more often than the E39 M5 (or the 650i for example) but the SMG avoids delays because of the quick shifts.

Or looking at it this way, hypothetically, if you took an engine and were able to raise its RPM 1000, if designed properly, you get extra HP. You would gain a little staying in gear longer and using that extra HP but you'd gain more by changing the gearing so that speeds in gears are the same. The end result is that you get to the extra HP sooner plus you get torque multiplication with the lower gearing.

One interesting example is I had a '91 3000GT VR-4 with a 5 speed and a '95 VR-4 with a 6 speed but the same motor and redline. The '91 was more "fun" with looong pulls in each gear (2nd hit 80 and 3rd hit 120 mph) but the '95 was MUCH quicker off the line with lower gearing and closer ratios. Note both were a single shift to 60.