Hey Bear - Let's compare results and notes

[karen1122]

Attached is the detail process I used this weekend.

I did not post pictures because I was unable to do so - Can you help with some instructions



The process was:

Paintwork

• Dawn Wash (yes, it is controversial, however, I happened to have some handy)

• Meguiar’s White Clay

• Z-PC via PC equipped with LC White Pad

Note here: this was the first time I have used Z-PC and I was not really impressed. There was some cut but it caked up on the outside of the pad. My guess is that since it is formulated to be used either by hand or machine, it is probably designed to powder quickly.

• PS21 Paint Work Cleanser via PC with LC White Pad

This step was added due to the results with the Z-PC and really brought out the depth and color

• 3 coats of Z-5 (ZFX) with an application of Z-6 between (Hand applied – Big white towel removed)

Coats 1 and 2 had a 12 hour wait between them to avoid polymer overload

• Z-8 Top coat

Wheels and Tires

• Menzerna Gel 7.5 Wheel and Tire Cleaner

• Eimann Fabrik Black Sapphire Tire Gel

• Z-CS on the wheels

The Z-CS on the wheels turned out so much better that I could have even imagined!! Easy to put on and it really made them pop.

Interior

• Lexol Leather Cleaner, Z-10 Leather Conditioner

• 303 Fabric Cleaner and 303 Protectant on most everything else.

[boxboss]

3 coats of Z-5 (ZFX) with an application of Z-6 between (Hand applied – Big white towel removed)

Coats 1 and 2 had a 12 hour wait between them to avoid polymer overload


My typical application of Zaino is 3 coats as well, with Z-6 between coats. My understanding is that the reason for using ZFX is to eliminate the 12 hour wait time. Do you have info that recommends a 12 hour wait even using ZFX?

[Gman]

Attached is the detail process I used this weekend.

I did not post pictures because I was unable to do so - Can you help with some instructions



The process was:...

Wow and I thought I was obsessed. :cheer:

[karen1122]

Boxboss,

The 12 hour wait was for 2 things: 1) Zaino does need time to cure and by Sal's instructions you should not apply more than 3 coats in 24 hours to avoid polymer overload. 2) I did need some time to sleep

Boxboss,

The 12 hour wait was for 2 things: 1) Zaino does need time to cure and by Sal's instructions you should not apply more than 3 coats in 24 hours to avoid polymer overload. 2) I did need some time to sleep
:scared:

[boxboss]

Boxboss,

The 12 hour wait was for 2 things: 1) Zaino does need time to cure and by Sal's instructions you should not apply more than 3 coats in 24 hours to avoid polymer overload. 2) I did need some time to sleep
I apply 3 coats in about 6 hours. My understanding was the cure time was reduced to about 30 minutes (depending on temp and humidity) when using ZFX.

[karen1122]

With ZFX, the drying time between application of the liquid and buffing it off is about 30 minutes. (It took 45 minutes to an hour this weekend due to the high humidity on the east coast). The cure time is something different and relates to full cross linking of the polymer. This can be likened to a paint that is dry to the touch and one that is fully dried.

Typically, I spread the detail out over a weekend to allow time for the base coat to cure. This is not a requirement according to Zaino, however, it is me just being a little over cautious to avoid any potential of a messy application.

Below are two quotes from the Zaino website

Note: Apply no more than three coats of Zaino Show Car Polish enabled with ZFX™ in a 24 hour period. For optimum results, use your ZFX™ enabled polish within 6 hours of mixing. Use a fresh cotton buffing towel for removal of each coat.


Can Z-CS be used over another manufacturer's product?
Sure. While results may vary, we are aware that some beta testers used Z-CS over fully cured wax products with excellent results. Z-CS did increase gloss and durability over other manufacturer products. If you'd like to experiment yourself, make sure the product that you're applying Z-CS to has fully cured. As a general rule however, you should not apply Z-CS while any other manufacturer's product is not fully cured. We cannot offer other manufacturer specific cure times, but generally it can take 8-12 hours after application. Z-CS was designed and engineered for use with Zaino Show Car Polish Products.

[BHR4CE1]

Attached is the detail process I used this weekend.


Overall, a great process! Here is what I do.

PAINT

Dawn:
YES! It is not controversial to me. It is the easiest way to strip the car of unwanted polishes and waxes…plus it cleans the car well. Make sure to only use Z7 wash after-wards though, or the Dawn will take off all the work you did. ALWAYS use a grit guard when you bucket wash, and rinse off your wash mitt after each section. I always work from the top down and depending on how dirty my car is, I will sometimes use a second wash mitt for the lower half of the car.

Clay:
As far as Clay goes, I like the Zaino stuff better than other brands, but any good brand of clay should work for you. If you prefer the M brand, go for it. As long as you use a clay lube, keep the paint wet, and don’t miss any spots, any automotive clay should do the trick. The Z clay seems to fold easier for me, and doesn’t slip out of my hand. Once you drop clay on the ground, you can just throw it away. Use rubber gloves to help with the grip!

ZPC:
This stuff is fine to use with a PC. Not sure why you got so much caking. I have not had that experience. I do sometimes spray a fine mist of Z6 on my pads. What speed did you run your PC? I also use a white LC pad. I think of the ZPC as a good mild rubbing compound. I don’t really let my cars get to the point of needing too much cut, but I would imagine that the Menzerna PO106FF and PO85RD might give you better results if you are looking for more bite. Be careful of micro marring. You don’t want to add haze to your paint. Working a PC too long can do that. I would tape off a spot and do a trial before you do the whole car so you can clearly see if you are helping or hurting the finish.

PS21 Paint Work Cleanser:
I am not familiar with this product.

Z5:
Did you not use any Z2 on the paint? The Z2 will really give you the high gloss that Zaino is known for. On darker cars, I always END with Z5. So, after the above steps (wash, Clay and Cut), and using ZFX...I would have done this: Z5-Z6-Z2-Z6-Z5-Z6- wait 12-24 hours - CS - wait 12 hours -Z8. That would probably give you the best overall results. The main thing about Zaino stuff is DON'T USE TOO MUCH! More product doesn't mean more shine or protection.

With the ZFX, there really is no need to wait 12 hours in between your coats. And remember, that Z6 and Z8 are not interchangeable. Many people think that Z8 is just a pumped up version of Z6. Not true. Z6 has cleaning abilities, Z8 does NOT. I ONLY use Z8 when my car is absolutely clean. I use Z6 as my QD and if I really want some extra shine, I will shoot a coat of Z8 over the Z6. Z8 takes a lot longer to “cure” than Z6 and looks much better the next day, so it is best to do it the night before a car show.


TIRES & WHEELS

I use a medium stiff brush to clean my tires & rims and wheel wells at the end of the car wash. I simply use the Z7 bucket water LAST during my car washing process.

I have used MANY tired dressings depending on what I want and how much time I have. Lately, I am back to using the Zaino stuff. It lasts a long time, and gives more of a matte finish (which I prefer on darker cars) when applied properly (two coats, about an hour apart). It also seems to be the LEAST sticky, and I notice when I wash the car each week, the tires are not very dirty. I think this is because the Z tire dressing doesn't’t attract road dirt like some others do. Tire dressing is really a preference as to how “bling-y” you want them to look. IMHO, I think on a black car, the tires shouldn’t be too shiny.


INTERIOR

Interior leather:
Hard to say what is the BEST, as it depends on the type of leather and its condition. The Lexol twins are very good for mild products. I like the Zaino leather care products (their scent is fantastic) for monthly cleaning, but for deep cleaning/restoring it’s hard to beat Leatherique.

Honestly it’s more about using the correct product to get the proper result. For general use almost any good leather product will do, such as Mothers leather care products which are terrific for a retail product. Beyond that there is no simple answer.

Dash & plastic areas:
I mix a little bit of Z9 leather spray (75%) and Z16 tire dressing (25%) in a spray bottle and use that on most of the rest of my interior. I use apple-clear on my iDrive screen.

[BHR4CE1]

Karen???

Did that answer any questions?

[karen1122]

Boy your guys are tough!! I never knew that there was a time limit to respond!! :grin:

Long post, but please make sure to look at the new questions on the bottom.




Dawn:
YES! It is not controversial to me. It is the easiest way to strip the car of unwanted polishes and waxes…plus it cleans the car well. Make sure to only use Z7 wash after-wards though, or the Dawn will take off all the work you did. ALWAYS use a grit guard when you bucket wash, and rinse off your wash mitt after each section. I always work from the top down and depending on how dirty my car is, I will sometimes use a second wash mitt for the lower half of the car..

I discovered the power of Dawn the hard way many moons ago when I took off all of my wax with the first wash after a detail. :cry: Now I use Gold Class for subsequent washes and really like the suds it creates. Regarding the process, I do have a grit guard but take your steps a little further by using a two bucket method. One to hold the soap and another filled with clean water to rinse the mitt after each section that is washed. This makes sure that the mitt and wash water stay clean.

Clay:
As far as Clay goes, I like the Zaino stuff better than other brands, but any good brand of clay should work for you. If you prefer the M brand, go for it. As long as you use a clay lube, keep the paint wet, and don’t miss any spots, any automotive clay should do the trick. The Z clay seems to fold easier for me, and doesn’t slip out of my hand. Once you drop clay on the ground, you can just throw it away. Use rubber gloves to help with the grip!.

I do like the white M brand clay, even better than Zaino's. It is very easy to handle. There are big differences in the type of clays available. There are very few manufacturer's of the stuff but there are different levels of aggressiveness. This one has only a very mild abrasive which is all that I require as the car is detailed at this level once a year. Specifically on the 6er, I find that the vertical surfaces on the back end collects exhaust soot and the clay does a good job of removing it.

Regarding the clay lube, I do rely on QD. Sal recommends Z7 diluted with water, but I find this very hard to remove after the claying is complete.

The rubber gloves are a new idea for me and I will have to give it a try.

ZPC:
This stuff is fine to use with a PC. Not sure why you got so much caking. I have not had that experience. I do sometimes spray a fine mist of Z6 on my pads. What speed did you run your PC? I also use a white LC pad. I think of the ZPC as a good mild rubbing compound. I don’t really let my cars get to the point of needing too much cut, but I would imagine that the Menzerna PO106FF and PO85RD might give you better results if you are looking for more bite. Be careful of micro marring. You don’t want to add haze to your paint. Working a PC too long can do that. I would tape off a spot and do a trial before you do the whole car so you can clearly see if you are helping or hurting the finish..

The intention of using the ZPC was to remove some light swirl marks on the hood. It did the job but was difficult to work with as previoulsy described. Typically I run the PC at 4 to 5 unless I encounter problems like I did with the ZPC. Then 3 gives me more control.

My 5er was detailed for the first time after 6 years of neglect. Here I used 3M SMR for Dark Cars with an yellow LC pad and the results were excellent. Hazing did occur, however, that was taken off with the next step (see below). I have not tried the Mezerna products and hopefully never will need that much bite again.

PS21 Paint Work Cleanser:
I am not familiar with this product..

You need to try this stuff!!!! As a final polish after the SM removal it really make the paint pop!!! It has an extremely light abrasive (some say it has none) and the cut is varied by the pad choice. A white pad will allow it to remove hazing as I did on my 5.

Z5:
Did you not use any Z2 on the paint? The Z2 will really give you the high gloss that Zaino is known for. On darker cars, I always END with Z5. So, after the above steps (wash, Clay and Cut), and using ZFX...I would have done this: Z5-Z6-Z2-Z6-Z5-Z6- wait 12-24 hours - CS - wait 12 hours -Z8. That would probably give you the best overall results. The main thing about Zaino stuff is DON'T USE TOO MUCH! More product doesn't mean more shine or protection..

I am confused regarding your use of Z2. Zaino recommends that Z5 be used as the lower layers due to its "filling" abilities and Z2 on the top layer to utilize its increased optical characteristics. Sal has reinforced this me on several occasions.

In this case, I had origionally thought to use Z5 and then top with CS but I ran out of time so Z8 was the top. Next time it is washed I will apply the CS and again top with Z8.


TIRES & WHEELS

I use a medium stiff brush to clean my tires & rims and wheel wells at the end of the car wash. I simply use the Z7 bucket water LAST during my car washing process..

Interesting. I do the reverse and wash the tires and wheels first using a seperate bucket of soap. The logic behind this is 1) it takes a long time and the rest of the car can get water spots while I am washing the wheels, and 2) since these are the dirtiest part of the car, I do not what any splashing on the freshly cleaned body.


I have used MANY tired dressings depending on what I want and how much time I have. Lately, I am back to using the Zaino stuff. It lasts a long time, and gives more of a matte finish (which I prefer on darker cars) when applied properly (two coats, about an hour apart). It also seems to be the LEAST sticky, and I notice when I wash the car each week, the tires are not very dirty. I think this is because the Z tire dressing doesn't’t attract road dirt like some others do. Tire dressing is really a preference as to how “bling-y” you want them to look. IMHO, I think on a black car, the tires shouldn’t be too shiny..


I too prefer the matte finish. The reason why I have settled on the EF dressing is that you can apply one coat, let it sit for 20 minutes or so, and then wipe of the excess to obtain a matte finish. If you don't wipe off it will remain glossy. The wipe also allows me to assure that there is no excess to sling onto the body work.


INTERIOR

Interior leather:
I like the Zaino leather care products (their scent is fantastic). .

Zaino is the only treatment that actually smells like new leather. This stuff is great. I only use the Lexol cleaner.

Dash & plastic areas:
I mix a little bit of Z9 leather spray (75%) and Z16 tire dressing (25%) in a spray bottle and use that on most of the rest of my interior. I use apple-clear on my iDrive screen.

Do you use the mix on both the leather side panels and the dash? Sounds like a good idea if it works on both. I use the 303 due to the UV protection and since Z9 also has this, it could be a good alternitive.

Great idea for the iDrive screen!!! These things are too sensitive to scratching and I never thought to use apple-clear.

Questions I have open:

1) I use 303 cleaner and protectant on the trim that covers the top when it is down. This piece gets marks from the top in the up position and is tough to keep clean. What do you think about using Z-CS to add an extra durable coating??

2) I love the deepness that glazes produce but was never willing to change to carnuba due to Zaino's extended durability. Traditionally the oil in the glazes would preclude the use of Z2 or Z5 over them.
a) Z-CS is touted as being able to top anything that is "cured". What are your opinions on using CS on top of Red Moose glaze?
b) Danase and others now make polymer based glazes. Do you have any experience with them?

[BHR4CE1]

Regarding the clay lube, I do rely on QD. Sal recommends Z7 diluted with water, but I find this very hard to remove after the claying is complete.

I rarely have to clay an entire car, but if I do...I usually wash it again after claying.

I am confused regarding your use of Z2. Zaino recommends that Z5 be used as the lower layers due to its "filling" abilities and Z2 on the top layer to utilize its increased optical characteristics. Sal has reinforced this me on several occasions. In this case, I had origionally thought to use Z5 and then top with CS but I ran out of time so Z8 was the top. Next time it is washed I will apply the CS and again top with Z8.

Again, this really depends on your paint condition, but Z2 and Z5 are two different animals. Yes, Z-5 does do some filling, but my experience has lead me to believe they work best when used alternately. Z2 really adds that deep/wet/gloss look. Sal called me one day, and during our conversation...advised me to always END with Z5 on my car because it is black. WHat color is your car? Let me know how you like the CS. It takes a little getting used to, and you need to REALLY try not to use too much product.

Interesting. I do the reverse and wash the tires and wheels first using a seperate bucket of soap. The logic behind this is 1) it takes a long time and the rest of the car can get water spots while I am washing the wheels, and 2) since these are the dirtiest part of the car, I do not what any splashing on the freshly cleaned body.

Your way makes sense for most users, but I have the CR Spotless system here at my house, so water spotting just isn't an issue. Have you ever looked into this product? It is really amazing! Takes the Huff and Hurry out of washing your car. I no longer worry about the sun or the time. I think it dropped my blood pressure about 25 points!


INTERIOR

Do you use the mix on both the leather side panels and the dash? Sounds like a good idea if it works on both.

Yes, it seems to work well for me. No too glossy, but it looks CLEAN. My top is down about 90% of the time, so the interior gets pretty dusty/dirty. I am amazed how dirty the back seats get...but then again, with the top down all the time, the interior of the car gets almost as dirty as the outside of the car since it is exposed to the same elements.


1) I use 303 cleaner and protectant on the trim that covers the top when it is down. This piece gets marks from the top in the up position and is tough to keep clean. What do you think about using Z-CS to add an extra durable coating??

That trim piece you are talking about is the strangest material on the entire car! I have tried NUMEROUS products to clean and protect that, but it seems that a damp MF towel seems to be the best for cleaning (gets in the "grain" pretty well) and to give it a little "life" I use Mother's "Back to Black" sparingly...being careful not to get it on the paint. I have yet to see a convertible WITHOUT those marks from the top's gasket. I have not tried CS on this yet. If you come up with something that works for this part of the car, please let me know.

2) I love the deepness that glazes produce but was never willing to change to carnuba due to Zaino's extended durability. Traditionally the oil in the glazes would preclude the use of Z2 or Z5 over them.
a) Z-CS is touted as being able to top anything that is "cured". What are your opinions on using CS on top of Red Moose glaze?
b) Danase and others now make polymer based glazes. Do you have any experience with them?

I have not used Red Moose in a while. I remember that it took a lot of muscle to use it by hand, so I ended up having to get out the PC, unlike Zaino which is almost effortless. Depending on pad choice...I think the Menzerna FP II does a better job than the Red Moose, but again...it is mostly a preference. Just watch your micro marring with any of these final polish products.

I have heard of many people getting great results using CS to top off other brands of final polish besides Zaino. It seems that there currently is NO product on the market like CS. I know a guy that uses Danase finish polish, and seems to like it; but I have never used it myself.